My favorite podcast... the podcast that got me listening to podcasts... is about a dead person. No, it's not Serial. It's Mark Malkoff's The Carson Podcast. Malkoff, a behind-the-scenes veteran of numerous shows, as well as a comedian in his own right, has been offering his podcast since February of 2014. Every week, he speaks to someone with a connection to the late Johnny Carson, former host of NBC's The Tonight Show.
From 1962 to 1992, Carson went from being a talented television personality to the Emperor of Late Night. Yes, calling him a mere "king" seems inadequate, especially in light of the fact that his empire was divided and never reunified after his retirement. It could be said that a great deal of Carson's appeal as an everyman mid-westerner, with his twinkling smile, world-class wit, and lethal timing, was that the audience "knew" him without truly knowing him. Like many great showmen, Carson cultivated a certain mystique. Yet he managed to keep the balance between familiarity and contempt firmly square. Johnny Carson, in one of show businesses' greatest sleight-of-hand maneuvers, managed to be the most private man in Hollywood while remaining at the top of his field for most of his career.
In recent years, efforts have been made to pull back the multicolored curtain and see the man behind the wizard. Peter Jones' Johnny Carson: King of Late Night, an excellent documentary shown on PBS (and still available on Netflix as of this posting), was the first attempt at summarizing Carson for an America where he is no longer ubiquitous. His former lawyer Henry Bushkin has written a memoir of his time with Carson that is reportedly something of a seedy tome. However, Malkoff's podcast may turn out to be the definitive work on the man. The podcast has gossip, but it is rarely of the warts-and-all variety; Malkoff clearly sees Carson as a folk hero and has expressed mild disappointment with Bushkin's approach. While I share Malkoff's admiration for Jones' film, which delves into Carson's family life in a way rarely seen (and in a way one imagines Carson himself would have squashed were he alive to do so), it is also too short to truly capture the full picture of Carson's influence, both in the 20th Century as well as today. In short, Malkoff isn't keeping Carson relevant, he's exploring the reasons why Carson remains relevant, a generation later.
Many high school seniors who graduated the year Carson retired turned 40 this year. Likewise, a number of Tonight Show alumni reach Mark Malkoff in a reflective and jovial mood, much like people attending a school reunion where everyone grew up to be incredibly successful. Truly, Carson's legacy is seen in the Tonight Show writers, many of whom have gone on to even higher heights. So, too, have the comedians, and it is interesting to note how Carson's blessing and the tacit endorsement of being called over to the panel essentially created dozens of the most prominent careers in comedy. An unintentional running gag of the podcast comes in the form of the guest revealing that, while Carson allegedly "never" visited with his guests before the show, that exceptions were gladly made for people who the host found interesting or with whom he had built a rapport; if there were a Carson Podcast drinking game, Johnny visiting before the taping would be the point at which you finished your drink.
While I've never met Mark Malkoff, we've exchanged tweets here and there. His personality is light, friendly, and, as you might expect from a fan discussing a favorite topic, slightly reverential. The podcast is always PG-13, with any word you might not hear on late night TV today bleeped out. This is in no way to its detriment; the podcast is largely about the Carson legacy and his mystique, and that can be told without crass language. Malkoff himself has referred to some of the stories about Pat McCormick, the hell-raising former Tonight Show writer who famously streaked on-air, as outside of his comfort zone. While that might disappoint those looking for the definitive version of the helicopter story (no, I'm not going to elaborate; you can do your own research), I suggest that Malkoff is correct to be so judicious in his tone. For evidence as to why, I point you to fellow alliteratively-named comedian Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. While Malkoff and Gottfried are about as diametrically opposed as two people could be (What little I know of Malkoff's comedy career suggests that he doesn't work blue, and even if he occasionally dropped the f-bomb, there's no way he could be as depraved as the legendary Gottfried), their podcasts occasionally cover very similar ground; in addition to being one of the smuttiest standups alive, Gilbert Gottfried is also a rather serious film buff and clearly loves talking about old show-business. In this regard, Amazing Colossal Podcast is either Carson Podcast's evil twin or Bizarro clone, because Gilbert Gottfried has gladly covered Pat McCormick and the helicopter story in graphic and lurid detail, but he lacks Mark Malkoff's focus as an interviewer, not to mention his respect for all of his guests (And yet, oddly, this disrespect is why I listen to the ACP, in spite of it occasionally turning into a one-man roast).
(One last aside about the strange parallel between these two podcasts, which I acknowledge may only exist in my mind: Gottfried will likely never appear on Malkoff's podcast, mostly because I don't think he ever appeared on The Tonight Show with Johnny, but there is a part of me that would be interested in hearing Gottfried and co-host Frank Santopadre interview Malkoff. "Weird Al" Yankovic managed to skillfully and good-naturedly deflect Gottfried's attempts to draw him into filthy humor, and I imagine Malkoff would do the same. That said, I think the two of them would have a lot of interesting things to talk about, specifically Gottfried 's recollections and perspective on comics and personalities who are no longer around to be interviewed, but appeared with Carson. I think it would be an interesting addendum, so I'm putting it out there in hopes that both parties make it happen someday.)
While the show centers on Carson, this is not to say that Malkoff is so focused that he doesn't let his guests roam off the reservation a bit. He allows his subjects to add context to the interview by covering the world beyond Carson. (Yes, one exists.) Their careers before and since Carson, their Tonight Show experiences pre- and post-Johnny, David Letterman's late night and daytime offerings, and all of these meanderings serve the podcast's central thesis, if it can be said to have one, which is Carson's overall influence on entertainment and (more so than the Jones documentary, I would argue) the quiet, curious soul of the man himself.
That Carson touched lives is crystal clear. But the podcast is inching closer, almost like a novel, to a clearer portrait of who Carson really was; think Citizen Johnny and you're starting to get the idea. While Malkoff hasn't interviewed too many people who might have a harsh word to say about Johnny (i.e. none of the ex-wives, nor his widow or surviving sons, nor Henry Bushkin have made an appearance, and the only blood relative interviewed so far has been Jeff Sotzing, Carson's nephew and the controller to the surviving archive of The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson), the podcast isn't meant to cover peccadilloes and settle scores. That said, recent episodes have increasingly given a peek into Carson's inner life. Jim Fowler offers an unassuming and endearing recollection of a man with a curious mind and a daring spirit. James Randi offers a heartfelt and tearful appraisal of a man with a fierce intelligence and a dedication to reason led him to expose charlatans on-air and offer considerable support to Randi's organization. Bob Saget and Paul Provenza offer memories of an avuncular craftsman, sharing his wisdom with two rising journeymen. With the help of Mark Malkoff's friendly and encouraging presence, the podcast conjures up a romanticized yet, I feel, largely accurate picture of the man. Like Charles Foster Kane in Orson Welles' film, Johnny Carson isn't waiting for us at the end of the podcast, but he lives on in these stories, more alive than in the clips his nephew posts regularly to YouTube.
This approach, a podcast devoted to a single figure, is so evocative and effective, like a serialized oral history, that it won't surprise me to see historians mimic it for their own efforts. I can easily see a presidential library or a society devoted to a particular author or filmmaker making good use of this format.
The trick, of course, is to cover the subject while the people involved are still alive. You could fill pages with the names of notable guests and colleagues who are no longer with us. The most notable absences are most likely announcer, sidekick, and erstwhile friend Ed McMahon and producer and occasional whipping boy, Fred de Cordova, but like Carson they show up in stories and anecdotes. (While Malkoff has a clear fascination with de Cordova and his strained relationship with Carson, Ed McMahon comes across like a relative cypher in the podcast, though there's probably a good reason for that: Malkoff occasionally throws in a game "Let's talk about Ed" to which the guest invariably replies some variation on, "Well... Ed was Ed." Another one for the Carson Podcast Drinking Game.)
In spite of these absences, Malkoff keeps providing conversations with those who survive. He's reportedly approaching Doc Severinson, the bandleader during most of Johnny's run and the most significant surviving figure from that era of the show (after Peter Lassally, who has already granted a rare interview to the podcast). Each week, opening iTunes or Twitter to see who Mark has talked to is like a little Christmas morning and the listening itself is always an amusing, enjoyable experience.
Finally, it's interesting to see something of the quality and depth of The Carson Podcast emerge from the podcast form. The podcast is more than just radio on the Internet. Let's be honest: no radio station anywhere would buy a show like The Carson Podcast. In spite of the big name guests and fascinating subject matter, I think that most stations would laugh at the idea, if only because they would question its ability to sell airtime or, in the case of public radio, they would wonder how many listeners it served. Yet it's an important, smart, funny show that preserves something for posterity. It opens the door for other highly focused podcasting and demonstrates that there is a place in the world for something that you don't see often on TV or hear on the radio that much anymore: Good, intelligent conversation. For that much, Johnny would gladly wave Mark Malkoff over to the panel.
The Carson Podcast is here: http://carsonpodcast.com/
On iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-carson-podcast/id824049190?mt=2
